Desem (leaven)

[So, let's begin!]

Desem (leaven)

Category: Culinary recipes

Ingredients
wheat grain	300 g
whole grain flour	of necessity
water	of necessity
polyeth. bag with c / z or 1with flour

Cooking method

• What Lyuda writes about desem:
• Desem is a leaven. Sourdough from wheat flour of simple grinding. It is non-acidic, it has a particularly gorgeous apple-peach aroma, it has a special leavening yeast with extra large cells, and it gives an especially great bread made from plain flour. The true discovery of America by Europeans in the field of sourdough wheat baking. (from)
• Desem is a leaven. French-type sourdough made from plain wheat flour, from wallpaper wheat flour or rolled wheat grain. It is not acidic, it has a particularly chic aroma, it has a special leavening yeast with extra large cells, and it gives an especially great bread made from plain flour. The true discovery of America by Europeans in the field of sourdough wheat baking. Of course, you can bake any other bread with it, including rye, from any flour. Its peculiarity is that black wheat bread on it turns out to be especially sweet and fragrant, ultra-wheat, with a soft tender crumb.
• Desem is removed and maintained in the temperature range from + 10C to + 18C without air access (other sources 10-15g).
• The temperature range is quite large, I took mine at + 17g. In the kitchen cabinet, built into the thickness of the outer wall of the house, because on the top shelf of the refrigerator, the temperature is no longer suitable for removing desem (the warmest place is + 5g).
• The process of removing the desem will differ only in time.
• So, for example, Luda brought her desem out at + 18C in exactly two weeks, and mine at + 17C in a month. Although I tried to bake on it before this time.
• So, let's begin!
• Method for removing desem from Sergei
• The method of removing desem from Tatiana 🔗
• Desem story 🔗
• I was based on the method of Sergei and Tatiana.
• Step 1 - 1 day
• Sort out 300 grams of wheat grain, rinse. Throw away the floating grains. Pour water for 20-30 minutes, during this time the dust will get wet well, rinse the grain again. Fill the grain with water (good, spring or spring water, I don’t have one ... ordinary boiled water) and leave it for a day at a temperature of 10-18g.
• We wash and weigh the grain.
• Step 2 - 2 days
• Flatten a quarter or a third with a rolling pin or in a mortar:
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• We put the rest of the wheat in the refrigerator at 4-15g, where they will slowly germinate.
• Collect the resulting mass of crushed grain into a dense lump with compacting-squeezing-pressing movements, roll in flour. The grade of flour does not matter, I took grade 1 and bury it in a bag of flour. We tie the package and remove for two days at 10-18gr:
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• Step 3 - 5 days
• We take out the grains from the refrigerator:
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• Grind in a mill blender or meat grinder:
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• We take the gingerbread man out of the flour store, clean it from flour, lightly scrub it with a knife. Break down:
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• From the center of the kolobok we select the entire mass except for the shell, break off the formed crust. Evenly crumble and distribute the bun mass over the previous crushed grain:
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• We collect the mass in a dense lump, roll in flour and put it in a flour cellar for 3-5 days at 10-18g. I kept it for 5 days.
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• Step 4 - 2 days
• We take out the bun, I measured the temperature + 17g. We scrape off excess, break it. You should get a mass with a strong aroma of soaked apples, acidic (pH 4.5, acidity 6-7 degrees, I did not measure it based on the smell), gluten-free, non-sticky, with the taste of a soaked apple.
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• Now it is necessary to develop its properties in the desem, to strengthen them, to allow the desem to mature.
• All this is achieved by alternately refreshing and fermenting the desem into a soft dough, then again into a steep ball.
• As Tatyana writes further:
• “From this moment on, two types of feeding are alternated once a day, and all procedures are continued for another week at 10-18C.
• One day they feed cool 1: 2 fresh dough made from plain flour and pure water, roll in flour, swaddle tightly in two diapers, tied with a string or covered with an elastic band. Leave to ferment for a day at 10-18C.
• The next day, they feed liquid 1: 2, for example, 50 g of mass from the center of the bun, 50 g of plain flour, 50 g of pure water, mix, put in a measuring cup, tighten with foil. Ferment a day at 10-18C.
• Then again a bun in diapers - a day in the cool, a soft dough in a glass under a film - a day in a cool, and so on.
• A gingerbread man in diapers is a leaven, desem. A soft and even semi-liquid mass is a sourdough dough.
• When the dough begins to rise to 2.5-3p in volume for 14-24 hours at 10-18C, the desem is ready. You can use it in baking incomparable wheat bread. "
• Sergey writes:
• “These refreshments require freshly ground flour from both plain and sprouted wheat.
• Therefore, I advise you to germinate and dry immediately from a pound, or even 1 kg of wheat "
• I fed my dezem with whole grain wheat flour of the Divinka brand
• We feed cool:
• 100g of mass from the center of the bun
• 100g whole grain flour
• 50g water
• Mix everything, collect a very cool bun, put it in a flour cellar at 10-18g for 2 days:
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• Step 5 - 2 days (I have 1 day)
• We take out the bun, break it, the aroma of soaked apples should be present:
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• We feed liquid (dough):
• 50g mass from the center of the bun
• 50g whole grain flour
• 50g water
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• Sergei:
• “Dough is fermented in the refrigerator. In a day, when the dough rises, you need to knead it well, beat out the gases. During the second day of cold fermentation of the dough, it will rise to the limit a couple of times more, but each time it needs to be kneaded, as soon as it reaches the growth limit.
• IMPORTANT!!!
• Do not consider the brew, which has risen to the maximum, ready for refreshment, here you need to wait for another sign, namely, the achievement of the required (up to pH 4.5) acidity, which, however, is also felt to taste. "
• I left to wander in the same closet under the window, mine did not rise much in a day, I started to trace. step and fed cool.
• Step 6 - 2 days
• Remove the top crust from the dough from the previous step
• We feed cool:
• 100g dough
• 100g whole grain flour
• 50g water
• Mix everything, form a bun, roll in flour, put in a flour cellar at 10-18g for 2 days
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• Step 7 - 12h at room temperature (upgraded step 5)
• We take out the bun, clean it.
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• We feed liquid:
• 50 grams of mass from the center of the bun
• 50g whole grain flour
• 70g water
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• Step 8 - 6 days
• Such training with the transfer of desem into a dough, then into a steep lump, give him the opportunity to "grow up", accumulate aroma, become stronger.
• Therefore, you can repeat steps 5 and 6 at least one more, or a couple of times.
• Only step 6 can be upgraded to give the desemus more abundant feeding 1: 4
• We feed cool:
• 50g dough
• 150g whole grain flour
• 50g water
• The dough will be very tight and dense, you need to knead it with your hands for a long time, about 10 minutes. Collect a dense bun without cracks, moisten and smooth the surface with some water, roll in flour, put in a flour cellar for 6 days at 10-18g. We check after 6 days for the presence of aroma, if it is not, then we leave it for another 1-2 days. I had.
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• At this moment, I kneaded the dough on the remains of the dough and baked this kind of bread without yeast in HP
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• Step 9 - 12h at room temperature
• We take out the bun, break it. Gray veins are visible on the fault - the desem was not mixed well enough and not tightly! Another time I tried better
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• We feed liquid:
• 50g dough
• 210g water
• 150g whole grain flour
• The photo shows the peak of the dough rise = double its size, I held it a little longer (I slept at night)
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• Step 10 - I repeated step 8, 5-6 days
• We feed cool:
• 50g dough
• 150g whole grain flour
• 50g water
• The dough will be very tight and dense, you need to knead it with your hands for a long time, about 10 minutes. Collect a dense bun without cracks, moisten and smooth the surface with some water, roll in flour, put in a flour cellar for 6 days at 10-18g.
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• Each time I opened the bun (especially when it got older), I observed a fruity aroma that appeared and the mass became a pleasant peach color. I have already baked 4 breads on it, there is only on desem, there is in combination with pressed yeast. In partnership with yeast, the full flavor of the Russian stove, especially the crust! She's so perfumed ... mmmmm
• Desem storage
• Desem's temperature regime is, of course, strict ..... I'm still thinking, wait, it will get warmer in my closet and where am I going to take it ?! you can swaddle tightly in bandages and for 3 months in the refrigerator at 4-5 UAH storage, and Sergei opens it, uncovers it, takes a piece and seals it again ... then I need to make a huge lump in reserve! grind some with flour and dry at room temperature, and some in diapers in the refrigerator
• For baking on desem
• I tried several options:
• -take part of the dough-desem, because a lot of it remains when we transfer it into a steep lump, it is stored in the refrigerator at 4-5g, we take a part and add it to the dough, you can directly add it, you can put a dough, you can feed it at least 3 hours before kneading dough (for example 60-70g dough + 60g water + 60g flour)
• -on a steep desem: take 15g of desem + 80g of flour + 80g of water, at least 4-6 hours before the start of the dough

Time for preparing:

I have 1 month

Note

By the way, desem in Holland and in the north of Belgium, Flanders, they call sourdoughs in general, and sourdoughs based on sourdoughs:

desembrood (sourdough bread),
natuurdesem (natural sourdough, that is, not with yeast, but from a spotted fermented dough),
zuurdesem (sour sourdough, that is, not a yeast dough, but a sourdough dough)

Thanks to the efforts of fighters for the correct, as natural as possible nutrition - Japanese macrobiotic and New Age vegetarian in the second half of the 20th century, later - the modern movement for unhulled whole foods and whole grains in bread - the word desem began to denote sourdoughs on whole wheat, for baking from plain wheat flour or meal or dispersed wheat grain.
The peculiarity of the desems popular nowadays in the West is that they are exceptionally cool and swaddled in tight fabric bags, tightened with a string, so that the sourdough dough cannot grow in volume like Italian sourdough bigi.

Desem is characterized by the aroma of cider and calvados, apple, slightly cognac-alcoholic, for polbyanny desem - creamy-apple-vanilla. It's hard to describe, the scent of green apple peel and creamy curd, the unique scent of the leavening yeast in the desem - the aroma 2,3 methylbulyl acetate ... It is instantly recognizable because it gives out the moment when the desem is ready.

The inflatedness and tightness of the tissue bag is used to judge the activity of desem in it. If the bag is tight and stubborn, then the desem is ripe and active and can be used. And if it is limp, then the desem ate all the food, calmed down and fell asleep, then it needs to be activated before using it to ferment dough or bread dough.

Desems are cold starters, they are removed from a mixture of grain or grains with water at low temperatures, at 10-18C. They are fermented (fed and allowed to mature, prepared for baking with them) at 16-21C. And they are stored at 4C (3-7 days, then they need to be fed again, refreshed at 16-21C) .. And they include sourdoughs on any kind of wheat - ordinary bakery, spelled, camute and so on. Wheat and spelled desems are the most widely popular in Europe.
In desem, leavening yeast makes up 2% of the total microflora. There are 15 million yeast cells and 750 million cells of lactic acid bacteria per gram of desem starter culture. Desem studies have shown them to contain 44 different yeast strains. They all belong to the type of baker's yeast (S. cerevisciae)
Several factors influence the reproduction and activity of bacteria and yeast in desem, they can be grouped into external and internal factors.

• External factors.
- Temperature of sourdough and dough.
- Oxygen content in sourdough and dough (kneading, kneading).
- The ratio of lactic acid to acetic acid in the sourdough and in the dough (= fermentation temperature and dough moisture)
• Internal factors.
- Nutrients (= grade of flour, baking additives in the recipe)
- рH
- Buffer capacity of the dough (= ash content of flour)
- Moisture content of the starter culture
- Salt

Ultra-pure or the easiest form for beginners - bottle or bag desem - is available in both Europe and America.

A bit of history.

Gevert was a Belgian master of baking the most difficult bread for bakers - wheat bread made from freshly ground wheat flour. After the war, he returned from France, where his family had been evacuated, and in his bakery in Ghent invented a method of baking an insanely delicious black wheat bread. For such bread, he invented a French sourdough, but not from white flour, but from wheat grains. He called his leaven "leaven", which in his language sounded like "desem". Sourdough bread - Desembrood

30 years later, he revealed the secret of his bread to American bakers, who, in turn, struck the writer Laurel Robertson with a Desembrot. Robertson's book Lauren's Kitchen Bread, in which she described desem and wonderful pastries with it, excited the baking American public. Since then, the hype about desem has not subsided for 30 years.

In 1984, the Dutch bakers' association held a sourdough baking workshop and a baker competition in the ability to bake sourdough bread. Omar Gevert was an honorary judge there and prepared a printed instruction for the participants of the seminar, in which he described his desem and his desembrot.

In the summer of 1987, the English writer Tom Jane, who himself wrote "the best, most accurate and most understandable" book on homemade bread baking, published Gewart's instructions in his Three-Course Gastronomy Gazette. Gewart's instructions were accompanied by comments from German baker Rolf Weichold of Düsseldorf, who, in essence, ridiculed Gewart's recipe, said that such recipes should not be taken seriously, although he himself had not tried the method himself, that it was bread poetry, not science.

Today, 70 years after that momentous time, when Gevert completely perfected the technology of desem and desembrote and started baking his sensational bread, it becomes clear that his recipe is the very perfection from a scientific point of view and that in a sense he reinvented the wheel. It's easy for us to talk about this, with our Internet access, science already knowing everything about bacteria, an understanding of lactic acid fermentation and a full arsenal of a professional baker in an ordinary city kitchen: from a flour mill to powerful kneaders, refrigerators with controlled temperatures in different zones and real hearth furnaces.

But in those years, the quality of the leaven according to the Hevert method and bread with it aroused the desire to cross, lift his face to heaven and thank God for such a miracle. Bread on desem evoked a reverent attitude towards itself. This is approximately how the ancient people perceived a bolt from the blue for the voice of the gods. And although we shudder and admire the elements, we understand that these are electrical discharges in the atmosphere and that no one is angry with us up there. God loves us all, but we need to take care and install a lightning rod and not walk with an umbrella in a thunderstorm.

Scientific substantiation of the method for removing and maintaining the starter culture from soaked grains at 15C.

What exactly (re) invented Gevert when he began to prepare the French sourdough from slightly germinated wheat grain in the cold anaerobic way? He found a method of fermentation without decay and spoilage, which has been used since ancient times in the industry of fermentation and urination of fruits.

If you have ever made pickled or pickled apples, or cabbage with beets at home, then you will immediately recognize the method as familiar to you for a long time. In urination and fermentation, the temperature around 15C at the beginning of fermentation is important, a certain amount of sugar in the fruits or in the pouring, and salt is possible, and malt is a substrate for lactic acid bacteria.Lactic acid secreted by bacteria that got into the barrel with urine from the surface of the fruit or (in the industry) from a test tube becomes a preservative during urination and fermentation. Lactic acid fermentation is anaerobic, the fruits are covered with filling. Yeast alcoholic fermentation also proceeds, soaked apples are slightly gassed, slightly spicy, tasty.
In the first 5 days, fermentation proceeds in a cool place at 12-15C, then the urination is cooled to 4C and below, so as not to over-acid.

Omer Gevert accurately repeats the process of peeling apples in his recipe for sourdough wheat. So much so that its sourdough smells like soaked apples and on the fifth day it tastes indistinguishable from soaked apples. Amazing! So, translated into Russian, one could call his method fermentation of moistened wheat!
1) 12-15C, especially in the first five days of fermentation, is the temperature at which lactic acid bacteria act only slightly slower than, say, at 25C, but clostridium butyric acid bacteria (they give the leaven the smell of rancid bacon or old oil, vomit), and likewise, acetic acid bacteria and harmful putrefactive bacteria will not develop. It is important not to allow temperatures above 18C and below 10C. 50-65 degrees Fahrenheit. You will see this figure in the recipe for desem in translated texts for Americans. ...

2) For fermentation, you need enough sugar, at least 5%, because microbes produce lactic acid from sugar. In desem, this is achieved by soaking and malting the grain. (Calvel adds 0.5% malt to the flour) The swollen grain begins to germinate and turns into malt. Enzymes actively unleash grain starch into sugar. So that the sprout does not consume all the sugar, the grain is crushed after the start of germination and the enzymes produce abundant sugar for the needs of the starter microbes only.
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3) The addition of salt to urinates, ferments and sourdoughs somewhat hinders the development of Clostridia, the smelly butyric acid bacteria, from which the leavens also taste bitter and which completely suppress yeast. Omer Gevert noticed this effect of salt and salted the sourdoughs and sourdoughs in the amount of 1% of the weight of the sourdough dough (that is, fresh dough that is mixed with the sourdough). Calvel in his sourdough recipe adds 0.3-0.5% salt to the flour.

4) Fermentation is anaerobic, without air access. The starter cultures in the first 2-3 days (and fermented and soaked) should not be mixed. Desem is buried for the first couple of days in flour and there it is sealed in a hard airtight crust.

Lactic acid bacteria work well in conditions without an influx of fresh oxygen, but most harmful microorganisms are strict aerobes and do not develop in the absence of air.

Acetic acid bacteria cannot develop in the absence of air. Burying a kolobok and swaddling desem drenched in flour into dry diapers helps to avoid the sharp acetic acidity of the leaven, which is unpleasant in wheat bread. On the other hand, good lactic acid bacteria in an acidic environment without oxygen produce generally mild-tasting lactic acid. All three of the most important starter bacteria thrive and produce aromas and lactic acid at 15 ° C in the absence of air - L. san-francisco, L. plantarum, L. brevis.

Stirring or open the surface of the starter culture is a guarantee of the development of acetic acid and butyric acid bacteria, as well as mold.

On days 2-3, lactic acid bacteria completely suppress the rest of the microflora and lactic acid fermentation increases sharply. As soon as the pH reaches 4.4-4.5, acetic acid and lactic acid bacteria are completely blocked in the sealed kolobok. During this time, you can feed the Desem for the first time.


1-grade bread on desem (NataliARH)




Wheat bread with "live" flour on desem (NataliARH)




Oat bread on desem. (NataliARH)




Wheat-rye bread on desem. (NataliARH)

[Natasha]

Natasha, super! And how by the way. I, too, are now in the process of growing desem under the strict guidance of Sergei. And I have a question: does wheat bread on desem have sourness? Sergei says that sourness is felt in cold bread. What about you? I'm also interested in the option with yeast and desem.Mine do not eat white bread with sourness. Here is rye and rye-wheat with pleasure, so that it is sweet and sour. I want to bake wheat on the desem.
Please share your impressions.

Natasha, such a titanic work! Well done! I looked at this leaven for a long time, but did not dare. There is no constant temperature. But maybe I'll try it somehow. Thank you!

[Anna]

Anna, I really think why everyone bypasses me today: this: I baked pure wheat only once, the first time, I didn't catch the sourness, but he was still young .... I promise to make the next one! in other breads on mature desem, sourness is present, it seems to me that it does not appear immediately, about 14 hours after baking, maybe I'm wrong

Angela Thank you

Well, what a clever girl you are, Natasha! And I never dared to do this desem. You have described everything so well. And such photos are cool that now it's not scary to hit the road with you! Thanks for the gorgeous MK.

[Natasha]

Natasha, WELL DONE!
How many experiments did she do and showed us the delights of the sourdough Well, right at home, with the taste and smell of pickled apples!

[Luda]

Luda, thank you, as I saw the bread contest, so I put it on right away, and in the meantime, I only baked bread for about a week, I put them out almost a month later ... there was no time ...

And you and Angela have some fruit-tea-citrus animals

Tatyana, thanks for your rating.

Natasha! : rose: Very interesting! read about such leaven, you have such a good performance! Thank you very much!

[Oksana]

Oksana, thanks: rose: so I kept an eye on everything .... and then "kick" and helped to start

[Anna]

Anna, baked again pure wheat grade 1 on whey in HP, and for 30 minutes overexposed the final proofing, the roof sagged a bit until it was absolutely sour! Nice bread taste and smell, by the way, the smell when baking is different ... in KhP, when I bake with yeast, then the smell is strong bread, we can catch it from another room, but on desem, it seems to me much softer ...

Desem's temperature regime is of course strict ..... I'm still thinking, wait, it will get warmer in my closet and where am I going to take it ?! you can swaddle tightly in bandages and for 3 months in the refrigerator at 4-5 UAH storage, and Sergei opens it, uncovers it, takes a piece and seals it again ... then I need to make a huge lump in reserve! grind some with flour and dry at room temperature, and some in diapers in the refrigerator

Yes, and in the summer we live at the dacha, we bake 1.2 kg of a loaf every day, mom will not bother with desem in HP, that is, turn it off after the second batch and wait 2 hours, then for baking ...

[Natasha]

Natashayou are so great! I definitely won't decide on this yet - it's difficult for me

[Gata]

Gata, thanks for the support, maybe you don't need it

Natashaaaaaa! ... I have no words, what a tremendous job! ...
And the thought that it is possible to make sourdough on wheat has just started to reach me ... Now I will definitely use your incredible work!

[Anya]

Anya, Thank you for your health! If you find a place by the temperature, then it's just great!

I transferred my desem to a dry state .... I ground the mass from the center of the bun with whole grain flour and dried it, it turned out 150g of dry bacon enzyme, tried to activate it like the Sekowa bacterial enzyme ... I took my enzyme 1 tsp from CP, mixed with flour and water up to 100% humidity, in 2 stages (feeding) everything was perfectly activated, in the stage of desem-dough (I activate from a dry state to desem-sponge and transfer to desem-dough) I will return in the fall, when the temperature is right, while I use this leaven

[Natali]

Natalihow much work and patience I admire

We must try, thanks for MK, the main thing is useful. I took it to bookmarks.

[Albina]

Albina, natushka, Thank you

this is how my "canned" desem looks like
I've already baked several loaves, everything works fine

I go in, then, with the intention of posting a translation of an excerpt about the leaven and bread Deyzam from Laurel Robertson's book "Bread from Lauren's Kitchen", and then I find ... everything is already there, and even more

[Natasha]

NatashaI read from Lyuda that she found her dry desem in a closet in the basement, where it was kept for about a year (if my memory serves me right). She restored and baked wonderful bread.
I baked my first wheat one on desem. Still young. I liked it very much, there was no sourness either. You are right, the aroma of bread is more delicate, velvety.

[Bread-turning]

Bread-turning, lay it out! more information - interesting and informative!

Anna, yes, I also read that it is stored for a long time, but in the refrigerator for years! It seems to me that this is a kind of analogue of "Sekov", the composition of bacteria is different, but there are similarities. Show me some bread

Already nothing to show: gobbled up. But on Friday I'm baking the next one. Now with crimped grain and flakes. I will definitely post it. Now I will only bake with leaven. Like very much.

we are waiting!

Original excerpt: 🔗
Transfer: 🔗
My own translation, for the first time I post it in the public domain.

Yes, if someone from Moscow or Ukraine has a day and can share - write me a private message! I will be very grateful.

[Bread-turning]

Bread-turning, thank you very much!

[Vasiliy]

Vasiliy, Thank you

[Natasha]

Natasha, as I promised, I share my impressions:

The bread is amazing, the most delicate crumb, the aroma is breathtaking, I generally keep quiet about the taste (there is no sourness, bread is made with wheat flour). Took one of Sergey's recipes. I wanted to bake a small piece of bread to test. I counted everything as it should be. Tea, not the first time. But I did not expect such a result. My bread was ripped into half of the oven.
About desem. Now I will bake bread only on it. Its smell for me is associated with the scent of an autumn apple orchard. This is something!
In general, the bottom line: after bombarding LJ with questions, I brought her out, although I didn't really hope for such an amazing result right away.

Next in line are experiments with Delbrücke-76. Test baking tomorrow.

[NataliARH]

NataliARH, Natasha! Please tell us about your kvass on desem! How does it taste and color? How long does it take to cook?

Listen, well, my eyes have already fled. And I want liquid yeast and now I also want desem. What should I do?

Citizens, do you ever rest there?
Natasha, take off my hat! What work and patience it is!

[notglass]

notglass, Anya, I didn't see your handsome man in time! Good! Airy! Delicious baking, do not forget to share the recipes! and is Delbrücke sourdough? (I’m not very much into baking yet, just peeking behind the curtain)

Anastasia, if only it turned out excellent, I would definitely report it does not grow together with me something with kvass (any), I will experiment further

Lena, hello someday we will have a rest ZhDezhy loves warmth, and Desem loves cool .... see what you can provide, then start and maybe you better wait with the garden after harvest? I put mine into hibernation)))

NataliART, thank you very much for the detailed and understandable recipe. With your help, I am thinking of growing a new leaven. I would love to try to bake such bread. It remains only to decide how to achieve the desired temperature. I wish you health and success, and I will look forward to following your experiments in such an interesting area as baking.

[NataliARH]

NataliARH, Natasha, Delbrücky-76 - these are bacteria, with the help of which Shelukhov's leaven (Belarus) was derived. It produces absolutely incomparable breads, which include rye flour (I have not tried others yet). Andrey got it at home 🔗./2015/04/blog-post.html
I just started to master the leaven, did not think that this process would take me so much.
I will, of course, share the recipes. It's just that now the hands do not reach to issue.

Huge gratitude to all baking enthusiasts for such interesting and informative information. My first trial on growing desem at home has already been going on for two weeks.We managed to find a thermo-stable place in the refrigerator with a temperature of 13 degrees. C. There are several questions, maybe some of the practitioners will not hesitate to answer:
1. At the stage of desem feeding with alternating stages of the bun-sponge, there is a feeling that in one day the bun does not have enough acidity (the smell of soaked apples is there, but it is not very strong and the acidity, tastes too small). Is it worth leaving the bun for another day, or is it still worth transferring it to the dough (we feed the dough and bun 1: 2 with flour from dry malted grain of our own germination)? Maybe it's worth always keeping the bun for two days, so as not to break it down and check it again?
2. Do you think wheat beer malt, Belgian or German, is suitable for feeding desem and adding to bread?
Sincerely.

[Alexander]

Alexander, I hope you succeed! the warmer, the faster the desem gains strength ...
1.I would have left it for another day, and yes, I also think that it makes no sense to give 1 day for the reproduction of microorganisms ..... I did not alternate feeding the day is cool - the day is liquid, I fed as described in the recipe (with modernized steps ), you need to look at the kolobok / its ripening / on raising the dough ... I realized that it's not quite working out in a day ... I'm sure you have studied the experiments of Sergei and Tatiana and intuitively choose the one that suits you, in 2 weeks of growing your desem You, I think, have learned to understand him ...
2. malt for dressing I don't see the point .... it might do, but why .... flour from sprouts. wheat or whole grain fully provides all the necessary growing microorganisms, "soaked apples" smells - then everything is correct! and the malt you are asking about is better to use in bread, there it will open up more than when feeding desem ...

perhaps it is better to ask the "desem connoisseurs" .... they also answer in their blogs, and as a person who just raised him and is not a bakery guru, I may be mistaken in expressing my opinion ....

So my desemchik has matured. Today I left a part in a kolobok, and a part was ground with flour to dry. Itut I have questions: 1. how to dry - at what temperature, open or closed somehow (I suppose, if left open, it will be seeded with yeast, yes, anything ... and this will no longer be a pure culture of desem ...?) 2. how to store dried desem? I suppose it is hermetically sealed - but at what temperature? 3. in what dosage to use it? I will be grateful for the autumn answers and advice ...

[Pauline]

Pauline, I answer late ...

I transferred my desem to a dry state .... I ground the mass from the center of the kolobok 1k1 with whole grain flour and dried it, it turned out 150g of dry bacterial enzyme, tried to activate it like the Sekowa bacterial enzyme ... I took my enzyme 1 tsp from CP, mixed it with flour and water up to 100% humidity, in 2 stages (feeding) everything was perfectly activated, in the stage of desem-dough (I activate from a dry state to desem-sponge and transfer to desem-dough) I will return in the fall, when the temperature is right, while I use this leaven
More details: https://mcooker-enm.tomathouse.com/in...on=com_smf&topic=418335.0

activation should take place at a temperature of 30gr, here is a recipe, I did it by analogy with feeding - only whole grain flour and water, just take a spoonful of dry desem and bake bread right away! activation only ....
Reconstituted Sekowa Buckenzyme (VA)



But, for my HP, I found the optimal amount of injected liquid desem to get bread without interfering with the work of HP .... 500g ... that is, I fed 1 grade flour and water to the required 500g + a reserve to remove part of the refrigerator, and then it's all in the HP and I add the rest of the ingredients, turn on the program and take out the finished bread. My desem lived for some time in the form of a constantly feeding sourdough, and then I got tired of all these dances ... and it costs a can of dry in the refrigerator

I dried on paper, on a table ... you can use a dryer, but not overheat ... and you can't find other conditions at home ...even opening the water once a jar of SEKOVA, air and its contents get there ... and the desem can be activated, transferred to a bun, stored in a kh-ke and pick out pieces from it, then again the cycle of desem, that is, having already the culture itself , we remove all unnecessary impurities in an airless space ...

Yes, store in a closed container, in a withers or freezer

How do you like bread on desem?

Hello associates.

I've been baking bread on desem for about three years now. Anyone interested can offer desem in Israel. Without compensation. If anyone wants to experiment.
I just refreshed it yesterday. It will be ready in five days.

... Dezem is a leaven ... and sounds like Zen ...

Good day ! Dear, no one can send me a ready-made desem by mail across Russia? And it’s hard for me to find a temperature of 15 degrees for a month ... And will it reach me by mail? I'll pay what you need. Thank you in advance

In fact, I started out with a plastic fridge and thermometer with alarm. Well, you need several containers of refrigerants. An error of 2-3 degrees did not lead to anything bad. But in fact, if you want to bake bread on desem, it's hard to find something better than a wine refrigerator. Besides, he is always needed. I kept the finished desem in the wine refrigerator. Doughs are also aged there.

Thanks for the advice I'll see this)

Colleagues, someone knows if desem is subject to freezing. About three to five years ago, I actively baked bread with this leaven, then circumstances developed in such a way that the processes had to be shortened. The best sample of desem was frozen, which I successfully forgot. And now, in connection with the well-known events, time has appeared, including the continuation of experiments with this wonderful leaven.
In general, the question is - did someone freeze / unfreeze / reanimate the desem after the freezer?

The best sample of desem was frozen, which I successfully forgot. And now, in connection with the well-known events, time has appeared, including the continuation of experiments with this wonderful leaven. In general, the question is - did someone freeze / unfreeze / reanimate the desem after the freezer?

Well, how, thawed it, let it work?

Well, how, thawed it, let it work?

Not yet. The flour in the shops is hung with a white sheet.